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Special Telefon Conference on November 17th

Presentation of Johanna Völker, held at SWPM workshop in Shanghai.


Michael, Kai, Tom Baker, Corey Harper, Ömer, Daniel, Johanna Völker


Short introduction round:

  • [16:30] <@michaelp2> Kai: Joint paper about provenance presented at ISWC by Johanna.
  • [16:31] <kai_> Michael: DDC Editor at OCLC
  • [16:32] <kai_> Co-Chair of this group
  • [16:32] <kai_> Daniel: Master Student at UPM, MAdrid
  • [16:32] <kai_> … Member of the Prov-XG
  • [16:32] <kai_> … Master in AI
  • [16:33] <kai_> Tom: CIO of Dublin Core Metadata Initiative
  • [16:33] <kai_> … Co-Chair of LLD XG
  • [16:33] <DGarijo> what does CIO stands for?
  • [16:33] <kai_> Ömer: Bachelor Student of University of Mannheim
  • [16:33] <kai_> Chief Information Officer
  • [16:33] <DGarijo> thx
  • [16:33] <kai_> Corey: Registry Community
  • [16:34] <@michaelp2> … Metadata services librarian at NYU


  • [16:41] <@michaelp2> Johanna: Slide 6: Shifting complexity from the data level to a metalevel.
  • [16:41] <@michaelp2> … The data itself remains untouched.
  • [16:43] <@michaelp2> … Slide 8: Use cases. Whenever the schema can't be touched and there is no built-in provenance support.
  • [16:44] <@michaelp2> … Also: Transformation of data. Specification of source and process.
  • [16:46] <@michaelp2> … Slide 9: Europeana example. All provenance information is on the basic metadata level.
  • [16:48] <@michaelp2> … A new node is introduced with a new identifier (ore:Proxy, ore:Aggregation) to keep assertions about resources apart.
  • [16:50] <@michaelp2> … Slide 10: Alternative view that pushes provenance info to a separate level.
  • [16:50] <@michaelp2> … Slide 11: This kind of metadata prov info has to comply to some principles.
  • [16:54] <TomB_> Slide 16 looks like quads
  • [16:56] <@michaelp2> Agreed. On a low level, this is the requirement. Identification of a metadata statement.
  • [16:56] <@michaelp2> … or set of statements.
  • [16:59] <@michaelp2> Michael: I would be very interested in feedback received.
  • [17:02] <TomB_> Finish work by 2013
  • [17:02] <@michaelp2> Johanna: Deborah McGuiness remarked that named graph support will be part of the next RDF specs. Reification will be deprecated.
  • [17:04] <@michaelp2> … A new syntax that is not XML is perhaps going to be recommended.
  • [17:04] <oemer> …First working draft May 2011; Final in August 2012
  • [17:07] <@michaelp2> … Deborah: Approach couldbe extended to arbitrary levels of metadata.
  • [17:07] <charper> Apologies, but I have to run to a meeting.
  • [17:07] <charper> Joanna, thank you for this - very interesting stuff.
  • [17:07] <charper> Bye all.
  • [17:07] <@michaelp2> … Other comments: We should think about algebra in the contexts of named graphs.
  • [17:07] == TomB_ [6c1c6e28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
  • [17:07] <DGarijo> goodbye
  • [17:07] <charper> quit
  • [17:08] == charper [~cah10@TSD2.BOBST.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
  • [17:08] <@michaelp2> … How do semantics change when making assertions about triples in the context of named graphs.
  • [17:09] <@michaelp2> … Other comments: Some people were interested in reasoning. Some were intersting in making provenance a first-class citizen in OWL.
  • [17:10] <@michaelp2> … Comments from Google: model provenance in information extraction scenarios
  • [17:11] <@michaelp2> … to keep track of extraction source (?)
  • [17:12] <@michaelp2> … Comment from Jun: Implement on use case sooner rather than later, so we can find out if this scales, how it works, etc.
  • [17:14] <@michaelp2> … Jun she highly encouraged us to take part in other standardization efforts (e.g., W3C Provenance WG)
  • [17:14] <kai_> … Are there known deficiencies regarding dublin core for provenance?
  • [17:15] <@michaelp2> Tom: Is there another level the group might address the issue?
  • [17:15] <@michaelp2> … as application profile.
  • [17:16] <@michaelp2> … The level of description set has to be specified (as or beyond named graphs).
  • [17:17] <oemer> Johanna: Comments: High demand for standartiziation of vocabularies for talking about named graphs
  • [17:19] == TomB_ [6c1c6e28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #dcprov
  • [17:23] <oemer> Michael: Efforts on descriptions and annotation sets
  • [17:23] <@michaelp2> … Deborah McGuiness said that there is no standard solution for all different application scenarios.
  • [17:25] <@michaelp2> Michael: We have a clear focus on metadata provenance. So we do not try to create an AP for provenance in general.
  • [17:27] <@michaelp2> Kai: Even after RDF has named graph supoport, there is still going to be confusion how to deal with metadata provenance.
  • [17:27] <@michaelp2> s/supoport/support
  • [17:29] <@michaelp2> … We want to provide some guidance for people how to handle these problems in a simple way that is not necessarily coupled with RDF.
  • [17:30] <DGarijo> i got kicked out :O
  • [17:31] <@michaelp2> Daniel: Should our recommendation be for any vocabulary or for specific vocabularies?
  • [17:31] * michaelp2 Try to dial in again
  • [17:34] <oemer> Michael: Seperation of schema and metalevel data:
  • [17:35] <kai_> Daniel: Do we give examples for the Prox-XG use cases?
  • [17:38] <oemer> … Question of who asserted the metadata
  • [17:38] <@michaelp2> … In the news aggregator scenario, we might have a look about concurrent assertions about resources.
  • [17:38] <@michaelp2> … which is metadata provenance just like the Europeana UC.
  • [17:40] <TomB_> Thank you all! You will send a report to the list?
  • [17:40] <@michaelp2> Kai: Thanks again, Johanna! Meeting adjourned.
  • [17:40] <@michaelp2> Hi Tom, yes, good idea.
  • [17:41] <DGarijo> thanks johanna, nice presentation!
  • [17:41] <DGarijo> godbuye all
  • [17:41] == DGarijo [501cac6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
  • [17:41] <TomB_> You can use a log of the IRC as a rough draft….
  • [17:42] <@michaelp2> We usually post minutes, but I think we shoudl get better at summarizing the discussion …
  • [17:42] <@michaelp2> … post minutes to the wiki, I mean.
  • [17:43] <kai_> I will post the minutes as usual, but I also can write a summary based on Johannas Notes of the Feedback that we discussed today
  • [17:44] <kai_> And we really have to bring the discussions and results to the mailing list, I admit we are not yet good at that
protocol_2010_11_17.txt · Last modified: 2010/11/17 16:58 by kai

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